First thing I tried 😃
Understatement of the year
Thanks!
Electrical Question
- Thread starter icebiker
- Start date
w_b
Well-Known Member
Nonzero chance the new bulb you tried was bad too. Ask me how I know. Now I pull a bulb from a working fixture to try first.
Stick to what you know.
During a short circuit you can pull a very high amount of amps for a few phases until the breaker trips.
That's why you have the Kaic rating necessary for your breakers, it's based on the potential current available.
You also forgot about the trip curve which is a multiple of the breaker size.
I have had to sit through these safety videos and with with UL on these requirements...
It's possibly a bad socket, best to check it with a voltmeter and not just a known working bulb.
But if you didn't see voltage on the wire I would assume it's not getting power...
Yep the Romex at the pedestal to the working coach light yields a chirp from the voltage tester. The same is not true for the Romex at the pedestal for the non operative coachlight. Each coachlight has three candle-flame incandescent bulbs. Working bulbs don’t light in the problem coachlight.
Is the problem the furthest away? It's likely what I think Patrick suggested, somewhere between the light that is working that feeds that light, and that light.
The light that likely feeds that one would have two insulated (romex but maybe not romex) wires, one feeding it and one that then goes to the problem light. If you can get to that wire you can check and see if there's voltage on the wire there.
In my horrible MS-Paint drawing below (sorry, in AirBnB without paper and pens...)
Let's say the green wire is the underground wire from the working (orange box) to the broken (black box) light.
You already checked the wire at the green arrow spot. See if you can check it at the other light. If it's got the wire coming in that has voltage and the wire going out that has voltage, you probably have a major break in the middle somewhere. Probably near a sprinkler head. 🙂
Thanks for taking the time to help diagnose the issue, much appreciated! Your diagram may not be accurate tho. Here's a picture of the situation.
I know for sure there is Romex under the grass along the perimeter of the driveway since when we moved in in 2005, there were pathway lights that we removed as they were damaged from snow plows. I removed the fixtures at the time, spliced and sealed the wire and all has been good for 17 years. I assume the Romex runs under the driveway in order to connect somehow to the switch in the house.
The coach light in the upper right stopped working a month ago. The only variable I am aware of in that month's timeframe is the sprinkler work, hence my suspicion that the culprit is the wire that is buried near where the sprinkler head was moved. I suspect I'll have to follow the wire a little more toward the house (since he moved the original head closer to the house) and see if there's another break.
I logged a call with an electrician in case I need help in the end. Waiting for a call to schedule a visit but wanted to troubleshoot as much as possible beforehand to cut down on the time he would charge chasing the break.
One of my concerns is that if I have to remove a longish length of Romex to do a splice, I'm not sure what kind of Romex to get, especially since as @Patrick said the Romex in the ground is not suitable for that application. If I get UF-B and splice it in, would it be compatible with the Romex that's already there? Also, since it isn't a proper use of the Romex, would a licensed electrician be willing to simply repair it, or would he say it's not "code" and thus propose to lay a whole new wire ($$$$)?
thanks again for any insight
Ok, work your way outward if you can.
-You show two pairs leaving your light switch. This true or is it one that T's off on the other side of the driveway? If it is two, check BOTH pairs. One is going to the working light, one is going to the non-working. If you check it there you'll see if the issue is at least at the switch/at your house.
-If you are unable to check, or there is voltage, see if you can find those splices from 2005. If you can find the one closer to the driveway and it has voltage, the wire is damaged closer to the light.
Work your way outward towards the light like that.
I can't tell you if Romex is OK buried to be honest, I typically deal with wire in conduit or Romex inside a house. The electrician should do what's safe I would hope. Most don't want to half ass it. I don't know the type of lights you have but it's possible to switch to low-voltage which may make some of the electrical work cheaper. But if you did that you'd want to make both lights near the street match.
-You show two pairs leaving your light switch. This true or is it one that T's off on the other side of the driveway? If it is two, check BOTH pairs. One is going to the working light, one is going to the non-working. If you check it there you'll see if the issue is at least at the switch/at your house.
-If you are unable to check, or there is voltage, see if you can find those splices from 2005. If you can find the one closer to the driveway and it has voltage, the wire is damaged closer to the light.
Work your way outward towards the light like that.
I can't tell you if Romex is OK buried to be honest, I typically deal with wire in conduit or Romex inside a house. The electrician should do what's safe I would hope. Most don't want to half ass it. I don't know the type of lights you have but it's possible to switch to low-voltage which may make some of the electrical work cheaper. But if you did that you'd want to make both lights near the street match.
Hey guys, Dave, a Licensed Electrician here. The nicked wire in the picture appears to be UF and not Romex. Uf can be run in the ground. That nick doesn't appear deep enough to have broken the wire. Testing the wires with a tick tester is iffy when the wire is in the ground, somehow they just don't work. If possible pull the wire up several inches and try again. Also test the power at the last light. Test from hot to neutral and hot to ground. Also do the same at the last connection of the old lights. That should help narrow it down
johnbryanpeters
Well-Known Member
Any spliced and buried connection is suspect.
It could take me a long time and mucho effort to trace the break by digging. Time I don’t really have especially now that it’s dark after work day ends. I’ve scheduled an electrician to come later this month with a thumper to see if it can be found. Will update this saga after. Thanks again for the insight and suggestions. 👍
JerseyPete
Well-Known Member
From household to 3 phase industrial wiring to industrial power supplies (Transistor Devices in Hackettstown) God only know how much voltage and current have gone through my arms and across my back. That could explain a lot of things about me...
@icebiker go with solar carriage lights. I recently removed my hard wired light post on the lawn with a solar one and it works great, I can move it, and no wires to deal with, ever.
@icebiker go with solar carriage lights. I recently removed my hard wired light post on the lawn with a solar one and it works great, I can move it, and no wires to deal with, ever.
GO WITH NATURAL GAS!
Natural Gas..... Man how 70's are you .... wind power my friend is the future....
there's a lot of "wind" in this thread
serviceguy
Well-Known Member
Doesn't that 'wind' qualify as natural gas though?!?!?
Update. Sure enough there was a break further up the line, also in the area of the new sprinkler head. Electrician found it using a detector of some sort. Spliced in a new UF between the nick I found and the clean break that he found. All good now. Going to remind the springkler company to be more careful next time.
