650b
- Thread starter BonsaiMTB
- Start date
Arwen's Mom
Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains
:hysterica
I have been telling you this for years!
ericgautier
Member
What 650b bikes did they have? Trance? I would like to check one out in person.
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
Man, I hope you didn't wear that roadie kit when you rode the DH bike. New Jersey already has enough of an image problem.
SQUAREWHEELS
Member
just wanted to jump in and toss my 2 cents 😛...in my opinion, I think the real truth is in the rider ....let me explain real quick ,,,I am 6'6 375lbs I've always ridden 26ers hardtails (what riding I did do hahahaha) never really had any issues,as far as terrain, obstacles ,drops,jumps, etc ......then the 29ers came along ,(as I headed into the motoworld) obiviously 29ers took over but then all the complaints came " oh its no as agile" , "oh it doesn't jump good as a 29er" so on & so on ......I got no beef wit that ,,,,,now years later here comes to 650b ...with the same complaints ,,maybe not word for word but you guys get the point. I have a 650b full suspension ( my 1st fs by the way) and love it !!! my wife rides 29er she loves that .....so don't understand just cause you don't ride a certain size why hate on the other,,,cause they all have their ups & downs . I really think it all boils down to the rider and their skill level,,,knowing the difference between their skill ability & their bikes ability ......................... no offense.............I still cant seem to master the manual wheelie...on a 26,27.5,29 ht or fs....so I had to face the truth I SUCK AT MANUAL WHEELIES..............
😛😛
😛😛
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Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
I think what most of the debate around is the fact that the industry is trying to obsolete the 26" wheel by inventing this new industry standard. People are upset because unlike a 29" wheel, for many there is no percieved benefit to going 650b from 26", other than what is theoretical. The race results certainly don't bear out 650b as being superior on longer travel bikes (where this is aimed at). Ultimately down the road, people are pissed that instead of upgrading that fork or set of wheels, they'll be forced to throw down on a new bike because of parts availability (We'll see how that plays out) to get something they never really asked for.
No one is asking for it!
I agree!!! 27.5 is the wheel size that no one wants.
The industry is seeing 26" sales slip year after year so I guess this is a band-aid??
Giant is doing a full line of 27.5 bikes for 2014. I think it is a mistake. 29ers are selling strong. They happen to have a very short dude (who hates 29ers btw..) running the MTB program.. Coincidence?? I think not.
I agree!!! 27.5 is the wheel size that no one wants.
The industry is seeing 26" sales slip year after year so I guess this is a band-aid??
Giant is doing a full line of 27.5 bikes for 2014. I think it is a mistake. 29ers are selling strong. They happen to have a very short dude (who hates 29ers btw..) running the MTB program.. Coincidence?? I think not.
J, all along you seemed pretty positive about the 650b size. Was it that underwhelming riding them? Not trying to make you eat your words or anything, I was somewhat interested in the idea myself until recently. Thanks very for the info, looks like I'll be sticking with my 29ers for a bit.:hmmm:
as a slightly under-tall person, i'm at the very least interested in riding one to give it a go. the ideal would be to run a 650b back to back with a 29er on the same loop and do a comparison. that's what i did when i jumped onto 29ers before they became the new hotness* until that time comes, i'm interested but still firmly in the 29er camp, especially now with the new FS offerings from Trek and C-dale.
*the exact timing of this event may or may not be entirely accurate but i did own a gen 1 mary so...
*the exact timing of this event may or may not be entirely accurate but i did own a gen 1 mary so...
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
The 29" size is pretty established now in the hard-tail and shorter travel FS segment. However it seems like the industry is now trying to push everyone who's on a 26" 6-7 inch travel bike into 650b. These are the guys who are pissed, since this is where there is no percieved benefit to 650b. Its not like this is dominating race results in Enduro (I hate that title) where this trend is really being pushed.
SQUAREWHEELS
Member
I found this too be an interesting thread ,,,,,,let me just say ........every bike product , wheel size , do-dad is for everyone . use whatever works for you and don't piss on what somebody elses likes. I see a lot of guys who ride 29er in here (650 forum) talking about how 650b is "unwanted"......not sure of there intent here hmmmmmmm........im curious when I was looking to buy my bike everybike maker except specialized & gt are making this new wheel size .....there must be something to it no? .........I jumped in this thread to get some advice about 650b and all I really found was folks knocking down the new size .........I always thought having more options to choose from was better for the end user ? im not trying to create any bad blood,,,really just trying to understand why so much hate towards the new 650b wheel size ....if you don't like it then don't ride it that my take on it😀😀
SQUAREWHEELS
Member
hey guys I found this , in search of help support of the 650b class ,,,,,thought I would pass it along .....I do not take credit for this info,, I would post source but not sure if it is allowed......................................................
first impressions.
If you put 650b wheels on a 26" bike you already knew well, you'd definitely notice the differences. It may not be as obvious to some if their first 650b experience is clouded by new frame, new geometry, new suspension, new everything bliss...makes it harder to tell where the goodness is coming from.
But, all else equal, you'd notice a calmer cornering attitude w/ improved grip (the larger wheel and increased steering trail adding stability and bigger contact patch hooking up better), a little more rolling efficiency, a little more climbing traction, a little more smoothness and confidence charging through rock gardens... So, no, there's no big "WHOAAH" feeling of incredible rollover like you can get with a 29er, but the drawbacks seem fewer and less noticeable than a 29er also, at least if we're talking about a full susser with a decent amount of travel. The very small decrease in (I hate to say it) "flickability" and acceleration are just that...very small. But all the poppy, agile, easy to manual, tight trail prowess remain in full and everything else just gets bumped up a level.
Regarding actual diameter, the early options were right around 27.5" (Pacenti Neo Moto 2.3 = 27.6", Nevegal 2.35 = 27.75, 2.1= 27.5"), and a lot of the new rubber hitting the shelves is closer to 28 than to 27.5".
first impressions.
If you put 650b wheels on a 26" bike you already knew well, you'd definitely notice the differences. It may not be as obvious to some if their first 650b experience is clouded by new frame, new geometry, new suspension, new everything bliss...makes it harder to tell where the goodness is coming from.
But, all else equal, you'd notice a calmer cornering attitude w/ improved grip (the larger wheel and increased steering trail adding stability and bigger contact patch hooking up better), a little more rolling efficiency, a little more climbing traction, a little more smoothness and confidence charging through rock gardens... So, no, there's no big "WHOAAH" feeling of incredible rollover like you can get with a 29er, but the drawbacks seem fewer and less noticeable than a 29er also, at least if we're talking about a full susser with a decent amount of travel. The very small decrease in (I hate to say it) "flickability" and acceleration are just that...very small. But all the poppy, agile, easy to manual, tight trail prowess remain in full and everything else just gets bumped up a level.
Regarding actual diameter, the early options were right around 27.5" (Pacenti Neo Moto 2.3 = 27.6", Nevegal 2.35 = 27.75, 2.1= 27.5"), and a lot of the new rubber hitting the shelves is closer to 28 than to 27.5".
meh
I was thinking that I was leaning to be Pro-27.5 guy, but on my recent trip to Utah I rode the Anthem x and the Trancex from giant in both wheel sizes, back to back on the same trails.. meh.
Still a 29er guy.
UNLESS:
-you think 29ers and big and dumb
-you are sub 5-8"
-you only ride so you can jump stuff
-your crotch is much closer to your ankles than shoulders
I was thinking that I was leaning to be Pro-27.5 guy, but on my recent trip to Utah I rode the Anthem x and the Trancex from giant in both wheel sizes, back to back on the same trails.. meh.
Still a 29er guy.
UNLESS:
-you think 29ers and big and dumb
-you are sub 5-8"
-you only ride so you can jump stuff
-your crotch is much closer to your ankles than shoulders
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
The magazines are full of it. A year and a half ago they were saying that they felt no difference between 26 and 27. There were even articles where they straight out said they preferred 26 testing the same bike model designed around the different wheel sizes. What magic innovations have happened since then? Every new bike they test now is top of the line from the manufacturer, has carbon frames, wheels, and top shelf suspension. So of course its gonna ride well. Any bike with that spec is gonna ride amazingly, no matter what the wheel size. The magazines are good for looking at bike porn and cool videos, not actual objective reviews.
I was hoping to find the fun factor of the 26 plus the speed of a 29er. Hrm. I was seriously contemplating a 650b Heckler. I dunno, have to try one I guess.
The manufacturers have no problem changing standards or obsoleting parts as long as:
There is a performance benefit.
It'll sell more.
They want to.
Because?
Just look at 10 speed, tapered forks, 142 or 15mm axle sizes, etc. Although some of this may be a real improvement, you don't have to have it to enjoy your ride.
I don't want to be overly cynical. I have no idea if the cost of revamping and retooling will be offset by future sales. But it has to be easier to stretch a 26er layout than when the 29er's came out. The industry (see mtbr.com or pinkbike) is pushing HARD getting buzz going. Almost seems like no one wants to be the company left behind on this.
Monkey Soup
Angry Wanker
This seems almost like an over-correction by the industry because so many were left behind on the 29er thing. But at least with 29ers, there is a tangible difference to be felt. With 650b, once you factor in variables to suspension and geometry, many are hard pressed to feel the difference to 26. If your riding a 29er now, why would you go to 650b? Its like going to 26. I rode my bike back to back with the 650b version and could honestly not tell. Messing with the suspension actually caused the biggest changes. All the 29ers I've ever ridden, you know your riding something different (for better or worse).
Arwen's Mom
Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains
I must say this thread has been entertaining.
1.5 inches can make a huge difference in the way a bike feels.
I saw someone post on here that 26ers are more nimble and 29ers roll better, and THEY felt that 27.5er would be less nimble than a 26 and not roll as well as a 29? Everyone is focusing on the "gain" and not thinking about the "loss"
Personally, it is all about the geometry of the frame, for me anyway. I have tried a few 29rs. hated them ALL until Jason plopped by butt on one that had woman specific geometry and was an extra small frame. Had lots of fun on that bike and came back to the lot smiling. Would I want to replace my 26er with one? NEVER. I like to have different bikes to ride, and one day I may want to toss/jump around my 26, and another day roll over everything with a 29. Remember, you can never have too many bikes.
BTW, my "pretty" bike is a 26, but handles almost like a 29 in the non-nimbleness area, but also rolls over everything due to stupid squishy suspension. Also is hard to get started rolling like a 29, but once it gets going, it just goes. Unless its going up of course.
The point? geometry, which is influenced by wheel size, will have more effect on how a bike handles. I have ridden lots of 26ers, and they all handle differently.
I say: ride what you like. Some will think the 27.5 is a "go to" bike for all occasions. Cool. Some like the 29, some the 26. I like choices. I dont own tons of shoes, but I would love a different bike for every day 😀 I just hope the 26 doesnt go away forever, better stock up on tires and tubes now 😉
1.5 inches can make a huge difference in the way a bike feels.
I saw someone post on here that 26ers are more nimble and 29ers roll better, and THEY felt that 27.5er would be less nimble than a 26 and not roll as well as a 29? Everyone is focusing on the "gain" and not thinking about the "loss"
Personally, it is all about the geometry of the frame, for me anyway. I have tried a few 29rs. hated them ALL until Jason plopped by butt on one that had woman specific geometry and was an extra small frame. Had lots of fun on that bike and came back to the lot smiling. Would I want to replace my 26er with one? NEVER. I like to have different bikes to ride, and one day I may want to toss/jump around my 26, and another day roll over everything with a 29. Remember, you can never have too many bikes.
BTW, my "pretty" bike is a 26, but handles almost like a 29 in the non-nimbleness area, but also rolls over everything due to stupid squishy suspension. Also is hard to get started rolling like a 29, but once it gets going, it just goes. Unless its going up of course.
The point? geometry, which is influenced by wheel size, will have more effect on how a bike handles. I have ridden lots of 26ers, and they all handle differently.
I say: ride what you like. Some will think the 27.5 is a "go to" bike for all occasions. Cool. Some like the 29, some the 26. I like choices. I dont own tons of shoes, but I would love a different bike for every day 😀 I just hope the 26 doesnt go away forever, better stock up on tires and tubes now 😉