Going Long and Hard.

IMG_20160218_105506.jpg
 
Meta
jimvreeland said:
I never talk about real training things. Mostly because real training things like intervals and nutrition are boring. But in recent times, more folks have been asking how I do my long rides barely eating or drinking. As an example, I had less than a bottle of Skratch during the D&L and then the following weekend's ride drank less than 1/2 a bottle in 7-hours. Endurance pace rides under 3 hours I usually don't even bring food or water unless it's a Recovery Day.

The basic gist behind this is basically forcing my body to switch from using Muscle and Liver Glucose over to Adipose Tissue (fat) sooner during my ride. Fat is a significantly longer and more efficient fuel during really long rides and Endurance races. Most people will bonk hard when their short term Glucose is used up, usually under 2 hours, or about 2,000Kj. As your body gets more efficient that 2,000Kj may go a little farther. For me it's somewhere in the 3-4 hour mark. Not eating in the first few hours will force your body to switch over sooner and give you an endless fuel supply. I wouldn't suggest any of this if the ride is under 3-4 hours.

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/the-bodyrsquos-fuel-sources
Click to expand...

Apparently also known as Metabolic efficiency. Apparently Metabolic efficient endurance athletes may develop fat stores in their muscle tissue and so the fat is locally available and thus they would have more marbled muscle than the lean muscle of a sprinter.

I did an easy paced 2 hour ride almost 2 weeks ago after a 14+ hour overnight fast and it wasn't bad. I had some black coffee before the ride to facilitate the release of fatty acids into my bloodstream.

Next time do a fasted ride, I'll pick up the pace a bit and go for 60-75 minutes. Then either go home for a meal or eat something and continue riding.
 
jackx said:
Meta


Apparently also known as Metabolic efficiency. Apparently Metabolic efficient endurance athletes may develop fat stores in their muscle tissue and so the fat is locally available and thus they would have more marbled muscle than the lean muscle of a sprinter.

I did an easy paced 2 hour ride almost 2 weeks ago after a 14+ hour overnight fast and it wasn't bad. I had some black coffee before the ride to facilitate the release of fatty acids into my bloodstream.

Next time do a fasted ride, I'll pick up the pace a bit and go for 60-75 minutes. Then either go home for a meal or eat something and continue riding.
Click to expand...

I ain't no Vreeland, but I don't start eating till two hours or so in. 75 minutes and go home and have a meal? Why not pack a hammock for a nap 200 minutes in.
 
Johnny Utah said:
I ain't no Vreeland, but I don't start eating till two hours or so in. 75 minutes and go home and have a meal? Why not pack a hammock for a nap 200 minutes in.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on how hard you ride. For me, if I'm really pushing it, I have to eat something around 90 minutes if I want to sustain my pace, especially if I am riding for 3+ hours. Since I ride North Jersey, which has a lot of hills and rolling terrain - and usually the second half of my rides are more uphill than downhill - I eat to stay ahead of the depletion of glycogen stores so I can make it uphill to get home. If I just rode flat terrain, I might not be as concerned with bonking.

I probably do eat more often than I really need to, especially as I don't have the physique of an ectomorph. Because of this, I may have trained my body to preferentially utilize glycogen stores and have a lower metabolic efficiency with regards to tapping my significant fat stores. This is why I have recently gotten interested in working to improve my metabolic efficiency to utilize my fat stores more.
 
I would say it's not worth trying to get your body to switch over during 3ish hour rides. You will bonk when your Muscle and Liver Glycogen stores run dry and the ride will be over before your body switches to Fat. During a shorter ride you're better off eating and keeping Muscle and Glycogen levels tapped off. Your body will only take in 300 or so calories at a clip so if you plan on going hard for 3 hours, you need to eat right off the bat. There's around 2,000 calories in Glycogen stores which can go away quickly if you're cruising. Say you're burning 700-800 calories an hour, you'll need those extra 600 just to make it to the end of 3 hours.

Forcing your body to burn Andipose Tissue only helps during rides that are 4+ hours. During a 6 hour day as an example, your body won't absorb enough calories to maintain Muscle Glycogen stores. 300 calories an hour in, 700ish out. Maybe you can fake it for a little while. But I doubt it. Say your doing a 12-hour day, now there's no goddamn way you can use Muscle Glycogen, that shit's long gone.

A lot of folks feel that "bonk" of your body switching from one source to the other and get scared their not eating enough and start cramming shit in their face, then your body will pull water from wherever it can to digest that food and you know what happens? You cramp like a M'n'F'r. Test your body by going through that bonk and see what happens on the other side.
 
For my first "serious" endurance race yesterday this is what I did and how I felt. Stopped at @jimvreeland 's house for some mojo in the am. I ate a bowl of homemade raisin bran with fat free milk at 7:15, 2 cups of black coffee. I grabbed a small medium dd coffee with a little cream at about 10:30. At 11 i started sucking down a bottle of Beta red by supplement and had half of a peanut butter sandwich. 15 min before race i had one gu gel with caffeine , i left with a two liter camelback of water and took a gel an hour in and then one more at about 2:15 in...immediately followed by a 20 sec stop to drop jacket, hat and depleted camelback. I reloaded with a bottle of Heed and a 1 liter camelback with plain water and ate the other half of sandwich and a bag of mms on the way up the road. The next 1:45 i drank about 3/4 of the water and the whole bottle of heed. I felt great at the end despite a nagging calf cramp on the second to last lap. Stomach felt a bit iffy though for the next three hours after race despite downing some pasta and bread. That was a 4 hr fat bike race(29lb bike)with plenty of mud and 40 miles. I think I will try hammer Perpetuwm next week.
 
Have you ridden with Heed or Perpetuem before Sunday? I know Hammer products turn my stomach due to the huge amount of poop in them. Not sure if it's related but using such products will generally pull a lot of water out of your body and into your digestive system to help break down everything. Usually will end up causing cramps. Using plain water or something very light like Skratch could be a better option. Food is food, hydration is hydration. Church and State.

Good job yo.
 
Thx @jimvreeland . I have used Heed before. Just trying it out. Mandell suggested it for shorter rides and perpetuem for longer rides. For the cat 2 ss races I seem to do fine taking a gel before the start and using water, a second gel at end of lap one seems to give me a second wind. I am knew to the endurance world. Martys was my first long race and I had a cold, ate too much and pished too hard to the halfway point, bonked at turn around and took 20 min to recover. With the exception of longest day and maybe w101 4 hours will most likely be my longer races...for now. It's tough to train for even that long working 40-50 hrs/wk and doing side work/taking care of two sons under 3. I'm grateful for what the wife let's me do right now. I do like the beta red before and during longer rides.
 
Good luck dude! You know I absolutely love my carbon fatboy? The one complaint I have is I used blue masking tape to tape a gel to the top tube and part of the white graphic pulled off when I took the tape off. Did you notice how delicate the graphics are?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom