Why can't we have jumps/features in trails?

PA is like a different country when it comes to liability.

in NJ any changes to the natural state of the park create liability. Slip off a rock trying to cross a stream is your fault - slip off the bridge that makes the stream crossing possible, bridge's fault.

Probably need to look at the ski industry, and how they handled the liability. Can't indemnify the park, or perhaps jorba, against legal action, and can't sign away negligence.....but argh!
 
fidodie said:
in NJ any changes to the natural state of the park create liability. Slip off a rock trying to cross a stream is your fault - slip off the bridge that makes the stream crossing possible, bridge's fault.
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From June '13, here's a recap of what happened down here at Ceres Park.
http://www.mtbnj.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30592&highlight=ceres

Currently the lone surviving bridge is still there, no TM allowed and a cranky local still throws limbs across the trails.
 
JDurk said:
From June '13, here's a recap of what happened down here at Ceres Park.
http://www.mtbnj.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30592&highlight=ceres

Currently the lone surviving bridge is still there, no TM allowed and a cranky local still throws limbs across the trails.
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Followed this mess on FB. Did some layman research at the time just to see how it might affect as a bit farther north. Was never really sure why they just didn't pick up the phone and explain the situation. perhaps they were inspired by that !*?!##! mayor of chicago..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meigs_Field
 
fidodie said:
Followed this mess on FB. Did some layman research at the time just to see how it might affect as a bit farther north. Was never really sure why they just didn't pick up the phone and explain the situation. perhaps they were inspired by that !*?!##! mayor of chicago..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meigs_Field
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Anyone that was at the County Freeholders meeting can attest that the Ceres debacle was due to insurance. The added bridges changed the status of the trail system from un-improved to improved. Once their Risk Management team inspected the area, immediate action was required to reduce the Country's exposure to risk. I can understand the County's position, but not the way they handled themselves....but that's a different story.

New Jersey needs to change the way they handle recreation and the exposure to the land managers....maybe even have the judges start throwing some of these cases out the door.
 
Overall I think it is safe to say that we won't be able to change the views of the park systems or land managers as just a community of park users. To make a drastic change to allow features or even things as simple as bridges for water crossings it would take some sort of political backing to push everyone in the right direction. And let's face it, that's pretty far fetched.
 
gt2brew said:
Anyone that was at the County Freeholders meeting can attest that the Ceres debacle was due to insurance. The added bridges changed the status of the trail system from un-improved to improved. Once their Risk Management team inspected the area, immediate action was required to reduce the Country's exposure to risk. I can understand the County's position, but not the way they handled themselves....but that's a different story.



New Jersey needs to change the way they handle recreation and the exposure to the land managers....maybe even have the judges start throwing some of these cases out the door.
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The funny thing is that the bridge that brought all the attention is the only one still standing.
 
MikeP said:
The funny thing is that the bridge that brought all the attention is the only one still standing.
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are there engineering drawing for that bridge? It looks much more official than some pt stringers lagged to 4x posts.

i've been on golf courses with more treacherous features, not to mention some of the public docks....

i have a motion sensitive camo field camera, and i aint scared to use it!
 
Anyone ever been to Glen Park in PA? Can you ride there without being shuttled and on any day? I'm wondering if I'd be able to take a trip out there during the week and I can't find any solid information online about it.
 
JerseyJay said:
Anyone ever been to Glen Park in PA? Can you ride there without being shuttled and on any day? I'm wondering if I'd be able to take a trip out there during the week and I can't find any solid information online about it.
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Answer is yes to all your questions
 
fidodie said:
are there engineering drawing for that bridge? It looks much more official than some pt stringers lagged to 4x posts.



i've been on golf courses with more treacherous features, not to mention some of the public docks....



i have a motion sensitive camo field camera, and i aint scared to use it!
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That bridge was painstaking designed by some really smart people who shall remain nameless. We had, I believe 15 prople standing on it at the same time. It's engineered to stand the test of time. I think the county realized it would be very difficult to remove it without causing more damage to the area with their heavy machinery.
View attachment 18606
 
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mattybfat said:
You will want to stop at this shop to get the deets, they do the shuttle runs sporadically.

http://m.verticalearthinc.com
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Went out there today just to check out the 'maze' jump section. some pretty cool lines in there, very small section but packed with features. Jumps vary in size and difficulty so it's a great place to get your skills up. I'll have to go back and check out the rest of the trails one day as well.
 
I would say for most of the trails in NJ having jumps and features could be a bad thing as they are multi-use trails.

But with all the people and the parks in NJ, it is pretty crazy there aren't more bike only sections with some freeride lines or at least a pump/jump zone. There are a bunch of open areas in my local parks (Hart/Huber) that could at least be used for a pump track.

I think it's funny how adult/parents/media will complain about kids spending too much time on video games and/or not being healthy but shut down kids for doing anything outside that doesn't fit the "travel soccer team" mold.

I wish I had some more time and money. I would just buy a piece of land and build what I want. I always thought if you could get a group organized enough to rent/buy land you could produce a co-op bike playground. You don't need all that much land and we bikers could make most any type of land work - sometimes the shittier terrain the better.
 
don said:
I would say for most of the trails in NJ having jumps and features could be a bad thing as they are multi-use trails.

But with all the people and the parks in NJ, it is pretty crazy there aren't more bike only sections with some freeride lines or at least a pump/jump zone. There are a bunch of open areas in my local parks (Hart/Huber) that could at least be used for a pump track.

I think it's funny how adult/parents/media will complain about kids spending too much time on video games and/or not being healthy but shut down kids for doing anything outside that doesn't fit the "travel soccer team" mold.

I wish I had some more time and money. I would just buy a piece of land and build what I want. I always thought if you could get a group organized enough to rent/buy land you could produce a co-op bike playground. You don't need all that much land and we bikers could make most any type of land work - sometimes the shittier terrain the better.
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My thoughts exactly, so many people complain about their kids being inside all day and not doing anything active but then don't encourage them to try things. Not every kid wants to play football or soccer, the sad part is a lot of people don't understand mtb as a sport and the different variations of it. I still have to have ridiculously annoying conversations with people explaining that I ride a mountain bike and people are like "wait so you ride a dirtbike???". I read about a town in colorado that passed approval on building a single track that runs parallel to the sidewalk in the populated areas so kids can ride their bikes to school and actually have fun doing it. I think that's an awesome idea and encourages kids to get into the sport.

Ditto on the land or co-op idea, would be an awesome investment for someone in the right position to pull it off. But then you run into the same argument that everyone else has posted is that people are lawsuit crazy these days and the liability would be huge. All it takes is that one a-hole to ruin it for everyone. Maybe one day an mtb'r will hit the lottery and build a playground for us all.
 
SpartaBard said:
After reading the comments at the bottom of the page - apparently it wasn't during a race but actually happened the day before while previewing the course.
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Even more reason.

I mean, I feel bad for the lady getting hurt. That's terrible. But this is a risk we all accept when signing up for a race, or really anytime you're pedaling a bike.
 
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