clipless vs. platforms
- Thread starter addicted7369
- Start date
You may want to check out a product called Power Grips:
I was about to get a pair of clipless when I saw them and bought them, unfortunately my platform pedals have no slots to screw them into, so I have not tried them. Powergrips sells a pair of straps + pedals, unfortunately they have plastic components.
From what I have read they seem a good compromise and better for my needs.
I was about to get a pair of clipless when I saw them and bought them, unfortunately my platform pedals have no slots to screw them into, so I have not tried them. Powergrips sells a pair of straps + pedals, unfortunately they have plastic components.
From what I have read they seem a good compromise and better for my needs.
As someone who has been riding clipless for at least 15 years, I really question the benefits. I've read of studies that claim nobody really spins in circles - it's all the downstroke. I kind of believe it. There are extremes. When I had my bike setup as singlespeed I could tell when I was pulling up at a cadence of 30. Under normal circumstances, I do question whether or not anyone is really pulling up (yes, I'm also a roadie and have plenty of miles on a fixed gear). I get really tired of falling over sideways on tech stuff (ugh, no more crank bros pedals but that's another thread). Flats do have their issues - from what I've heard, you basically need to use shin guards if you like to keep the meat on your bones. Just saying that I wouldn't rush into clipless despite the fact that I still use them.
StumpJumper22
Member
What are 5-10 shoes???
I'm still struggling with the pedals issue. Once I got accustomed to my clipless pedals (that came with my bike), I really liked the feel and efficiency of riding - but I did not like trying more technical sections and falling and getting hurt (my technical skills are very beginner). I eventually switched to 50/50s and have used them since. The only problem is that if I wear my cleats on the flat sides the shoes slip and it feels very unstable to ride - it's "ok" with just sneakers, which is how I rode Jorba Fest. I prefer riding clipped in, but right now I don't have the skills to be comfortable/confident enough to ride trails that way.
My tip: if/when you go clipless - try some indoor spin classes first to practice and get an idea how they work (wish someone had told me that!). When you get to the actual bike, try a nice grassy field. And oil your shoes. 🙂
Happy 4th!!
~Rachael
I'm still struggling with the pedals issue. Once I got accustomed to my clipless pedals (that came with my bike), I really liked the feel and efficiency of riding - but I did not like trying more technical sections and falling and getting hurt (my technical skills are very beginner). I eventually switched to 50/50s and have used them since. The only problem is that if I wear my cleats on the flat sides the shoes slip and it feels very unstable to ride - it's "ok" with just sneakers, which is how I rode Jorba Fest. I prefer riding clipped in, but right now I don't have the skills to be comfortable/confident enough to ride trails that way.
My tip: if/when you go clipless - try some indoor spin classes first to practice and get an idea how they work (wish someone had told me that!). When you get to the actual bike, try a nice grassy field. And oil your shoes. 🙂
Happy 4th!!
~Rachael
Just a brand. They started out making climbing shoes and coming up with super sticky tread to keep footing on ascents, which is where I first heard about them.
Eventually they moved into MTB and since their soles are super sticky, they're popular with the FR/DH scene.
They make shoes for both flats and SPD pedals. I'm pretty sure they'll fit most 2-hole cleats because I've used them with both Shimano and Crank Bros and I'm pretty positive that Time has the same cleat mounting.
I've owned two pairs, one older Rennie model and the Minnaar.
They're great shoes, but my day to day shoe is now a Sette Nix because they have most of the features of my Minnaars with a third of the cost.
addicted7369
New Member
Hammerhead
New Member
goldsbar, i'll second the comment about crank bros....i was constantly falling over sideways as well.
i switched back to flats and i'm a lot more confident. it simply comes down to if you like your pedals, then they're the right ones for you.
i switched back to flats and i'm a lot more confident. it simply comes down to if you like your pedals, then they're the right ones for you.
PTB66
New Member
Clipless with Shimano SH-56 multi release cleats. They allow you to release your foot from the pedal in more than one direction. People will argue that you can release out of them unexpectedly but I've never had this issue.
I set my pedals at max release tension and they work flawlessly.
I've ridden and raced with these in Cross and MTB without issue.
I set my pedals at max release tension and they work flawlessly.
I've ridden and raced with these in Cross and MTB without issue.
Trail Rider
Member
I have been using clipless pedals (Shimano M-540s with the SH-56 multi directional cleats) for a few months now.
I feel comfortable clipped in on the road or very easy paths. However, whenever I got to something even a bit challenging, I get nervous and want my feet unclipped.
Clipped-in, I tend to chicken out and avoid features that normally I would fly right over with platforms.
Maybe in time I will get more confident with clipness but I am not seeing the benefits on real trails just yet.
I feel comfortable clipped in on the road or very easy paths. However, whenever I got to something even a bit challenging, I get nervous and want my feet unclipped.
Clipped-in, I tend to chicken out and avoid features that normally I would fly right over with platforms.
Maybe in time I will get more confident with clipness but I am not seeing the benefits on real trails just yet.
a.s.
Mr. Chainring
15 years riding clips and you still fall over? It's got to be your pedals.
Anyone who's ridden clipless for more than a year should be able to unclip and put their foot down as quickly as if they were riding flats - unless your pedals suck or are broken. I still say clipless is the best way to ride xc.
CrankDat
New Member
1speed
Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
I would doubt the validity of any study that says pedaling is all downstroke. That's simply not true, and if that's what a rider's experience is, they should work on their form. Every time I climb, gears or not, I'm pulling. And I guarantee that all else being equal clipless beats platforms up a climb. That is, me on clipless beats me on platforms every time. And I'd wager that anyone with experience on both would experience the same thing. You just have the opportunity to access more power in clipless. And, just to be very clear, I'm no saying I can beat anyone who rides platforms. If someone is better than me in general, they probably are better than me when they're on platforms, too. But if we're essentially the same rider fitness and skillwise, I'm beating them up a hill when I have clipless.
I think this issue is all about preference and feel. If you prefer platforms, then you ride platforms. If you prefer clipless, you ride those. Personally, I wouldn't enjoy platforms at all but I do believe they provide real benefit to overall form as a training tool. But that's it. with respect to the top of a hill, clipless get you there faster.
It was the Crank Bros cleats. The pedals are fine until the cleat starts to wear (which is almost immediately). They wear fast but the impact is gradual so the first few times I would fall over with new cleats I'd blame myself. Then it would start to get more obvious.
Years ago I experimented with Onza pedals. Similar issues only 10x worse.
I switched back to good old Shimano this year and they're much better. Haven't gotten stuck in yet.
iv been riding crank brothers pedals for 2 years now and i havnt worn the cleats to a point that they dont release correctly, never have had a problem with getting after the first couple of rides to get used to them.
the thrill
Member
I went clipless today 😀 😀 😀. I actually got a set of the wellgo d10's which are clipless on one side and studded platform on the other. yea, i know some of you will rag about not having the right side up when trying to clip in yadda yadda... i don't care. I like 'em. I never knew so much extra power could be harnessed on the upstroke. I got them from pricepoint along with the sette NIX shoe which looks more like a skate sneaker than a mountain bike shoe but they rock and they look stylish as all hell. i'm officially addicted and can't wait to ride tomorrow 🙂
OP, if you're unsure about clipless (as I was), try a dual platform 😉
OP, if you're unsure about clipless (as I was), try a dual platform 😉
Here's an interesting article that at least attempts to link to some scientific sources claiming clipless has no efficientcy benefits. I'll continue to use clipless as that's what I'm used to but I do find some of the research enlightening. Maybe best answer is Lewis Morris & South (x Sourlands) no reason not to go clipless, anywhere North and at least give it some thought.
from www.BikeJames.com
Clipless Pedal Myth #1: Clipless pedals let you pedal with more power.
Absolutely not true…there is nothing that shows that clipless pedals definitively let you produce more raw "power". In fact, some of the highest power outputs ever measured have been done on flat pedals (Nathan Rennie at the Australian Institute of Sport, for one). They do let you artificially strengthen the weak link of the feet which allows you to pedal longer before power starts to wane, which is useful for multi-hour/ multi-day racing, but there is absolutely no raw "power" advantage in clipless pedals. The fact that
you can't climb that steep hill without them is more in your head and lack of pedaling technique (see below).
Clipless Pedal Myth #2: You need to be able to pull up on your pedals to produce max power.
Again, this is simply not true no matter how many times it gets repeated. When studied, the most powerful and efficient method is not pulling up and producing power on the upstroke, it is instead driving hard with the lead leg and un-weighting the trail leg (Korff et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39:991-995). In fact, your pedal stroke with flats and with clipless pedals should remain exactly the same – there is no "magic" pedal stroke that is only available by attaching your feet to your pedals (Mornieux et al. Int J Sports
Med 2008; 29:817-822).
Clipless Pedal Myth #3: Your feet will bounce around and you'll have a hard time keeping them on the pedals.
Logically this makes no sense - some of the top downhill racers in the world run flats (World Champ Sam Hill among them) so obviously it is possible to go very fast through rough terrain and not have a foot bounce off. Two things make this possible, the first being 5:10 brand shoes with sticky rubber soles and some good flat pedals. That combination makes your feet feel attached like you were clipped in and will completely change how you view riding with flats. Second, being able to "ground" your feet into the pedals is a specific application of core strength that you have to learn and, once you do,
you won't feel like you feet are floating over your pedals anymore.
I think that a lot of riders are trapped by the paradigm that clipless pedals are somehow definitively superior when the facts tell us something much different. Just because most people come into mountain biking with dysfunctions that make it initially easier to use clipless pedals doesn't mean that they are better, or even good in the long run. In the hands of someone whose reality isn't shaped by the same dysfunctions, flat pedals allow you to ride every bit as hard and far; you just have to use a different technique that
isn't possible without addressing the core and hip weakness that are really at the root ofthe issue.
Let me close with this…in the hands of someone who isn't using them to mask
dysfunction clipless shoes and pedals are a useful tool. I just feel that they are competition level technology that isn't meant to be used everyday by your average rider. Flat pedals will enhance your technical skills and confidence, teach you better pedaling technique and save your knees, hips and low back – not a bad trade off if you can get past the "myths" surrounding clipless pedals.
from www.BikeJames.com
Clipless Pedal Myth #1: Clipless pedals let you pedal with more power.
Absolutely not true…there is nothing that shows that clipless pedals definitively let you produce more raw "power". In fact, some of the highest power outputs ever measured have been done on flat pedals (Nathan Rennie at the Australian Institute of Sport, for one). They do let you artificially strengthen the weak link of the feet which allows you to pedal longer before power starts to wane, which is useful for multi-hour/ multi-day racing, but there is absolutely no raw "power" advantage in clipless pedals. The fact that
you can't climb that steep hill without them is more in your head and lack of pedaling technique (see below).
Clipless Pedal Myth #2: You need to be able to pull up on your pedals to produce max power.
Again, this is simply not true no matter how many times it gets repeated. When studied, the most powerful and efficient method is not pulling up and producing power on the upstroke, it is instead driving hard with the lead leg and un-weighting the trail leg (Korff et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39:991-995). In fact, your pedal stroke with flats and with clipless pedals should remain exactly the same – there is no "magic" pedal stroke that is only available by attaching your feet to your pedals (Mornieux et al. Int J Sports
Med 2008; 29:817-822).
Clipless Pedal Myth #3: Your feet will bounce around and you'll have a hard time keeping them on the pedals.
Logically this makes no sense - some of the top downhill racers in the world run flats (World Champ Sam Hill among them) so obviously it is possible to go very fast through rough terrain and not have a foot bounce off. Two things make this possible, the first being 5:10 brand shoes with sticky rubber soles and some good flat pedals. That combination makes your feet feel attached like you were clipped in and will completely change how you view riding with flats. Second, being able to "ground" your feet into the pedals is a specific application of core strength that you have to learn and, once you do,
you won't feel like you feet are floating over your pedals anymore.
I think that a lot of riders are trapped by the paradigm that clipless pedals are somehow definitively superior when the facts tell us something much different. Just because most people come into mountain biking with dysfunctions that make it initially easier to use clipless pedals doesn't mean that they are better, or even good in the long run. In the hands of someone whose reality isn't shaped by the same dysfunctions, flat pedals allow you to ride every bit as hard and far; you just have to use a different technique that
isn't possible without addressing the core and hip weakness that are really at the root ofthe issue.
Let me close with this…in the hands of someone who isn't using them to mask
dysfunction clipless shoes and pedals are a useful tool. I just feel that they are competition level technology that isn't meant to be used everyday by your average rider. Flat pedals will enhance your technical skills and confidence, teach you better pedaling technique and save your knees, hips and low back – not a bad trade off if you can get past the "myths" surrounding clipless pedals.
the thrill
Member
this debate is probably as old as the grand canyon. I rode flats growing up. I rode flats when I first started mountain biking a couple months ago and bought dual sided pedals because i wasn't 100% sure if I would like clipless. I've used them twice and really like them. Being out of shape, the mechanical advantage of the little additional burst of power my other leg can offer by pulling helped me yesterday on my 3 hour ride but I found myself unclipping/flipping in areas I didn't think would be very clipless friendly (at least with my lack of technical skill). I like having the option that the pedals I'm using give me. Would I ever go 100% clipless? probably not... would I suggest trying it? absolutely. i'd just say do like i did... try the dual sided pedals. unless you're one of those "blah blah blah the clipless is never on the right side and I have to flip it with my foot" snobs, you won't have much trouble. The flat side works fine with the shoes and if you really want to clip in fast, the pedals seem to have enough stiffness in the bearings/shaft to keep them in place anyway... or go for one of the type that has the clipless on both sides but are recessed enough for your feet to sit flat on the pedals regardless...
just my $.02
just my $.02
Matt_
I Get Jokes
So someone who doesn't have the same opinion as you is a "snob"???
I had the dual sided pedals and hated them. Rode them twice and they just annoyed me more than anything.
So then i switched to a pedal like you just mentioned (clipless and platform on both sides) and loved them.
the thrill
Member
No. I never said anything as pretentious as that... maybe I spoke incorrectly.
I prefer the clipless on one side mainly because I'd like to be able to flip the pedal over in trouble times and not have to worry about inadvertently clipping back in... again, purely preference. I've heard stories of the dual sided pedals having the clipless stick up too far for sneakers and being uncomfortable... i'm glad there are other users of the platform/clipless pedals than just myself. which ones do you use? i was looking at the crankbrothers but they got mixed reviews... so far, i'm liking my cheapie $40 wellgos 😉
all i was implying was that some people will rag on for days about how the single sided clipless sucks blah blah blah... i have more to worry about in my life than not being able to click in on both sides... full time job, guitar making business, mortgage payments, high gas prices and difficulties of becoming a capitalist with minimal capital... bike pedals are low on the list LoL