Lance Armstrong interview

[stb222]

Well said jake. People need to read racing through the dark (David Millar) and Tyler Hamiltons book. There is enough stuff that aligns between those books that it is the entire peleton (or was), one day riders are the only one who could have been clean in that era. Whoever said the thing about money hit it on the head. We wonder why thugs are making millions of dollars and then everyone is shocked when the shoot someone, like the money should reform them. All of this is fueled by money, take that away and she what happens.

 

[SmooveP]

anyone speculate that it cause his cancer? (this may be taboo, apologies if it offends)

I think it's fair game. Once you've admitted lying and cheating, it makes perfect sense for people to scrutinize other areas of your life and business dealings.

 

[SmooveP]

As a counterpoint, bearing in mind the moral ambiguity of the world we live in (not saying its right, just the reality) :

a) Makes you a cheater - Is there cheating in the world of entertainment?
b) Being a liar - All people lie. Peers all do it. Who are you lying too?
c) Illegal - Your peers all do it, take the same thing. Applies to above also.
d) Not necessarily that bad for you if done scientifically.
e) People can call you what they want as you laugh to the bank.

Seriously? That's what you believe?
You're "not saying it's right", but go on to defend each point with arguments that seem to indicate your opinions on each point. If you had kids, would you show them this list? If so, please don't reproduce!

 

[Red Mosquito]

There is enough stuff that aligns between those books that it is the entire peleton (or was), one day riders are the only one who could have been clean in that era

Want to try this one again? Now I need to know what you were trying to say here.

While I don't agree with doping I understand that you have to do it to remain competitive if everyone else is doing it too. In the end the only people you can really vilify are the first ones to take the drugs in any given sport, or the officials who failed to squash it ASAP. As for public reaction I think it's human nature to look at anyone more successful than ourselves and try to discredit them or cut them down in any way possible. Look at any celebrity's twitter account for examples. Also look at the popular idea that the wealthy need to pay more taxes in order to do their fair share. I don't find it far fetched for people to be mad about doping, but people would have a similar reaction if they found out LA won because he ate a magical clif bar that gave him thrusty farts to push him up the climbs.

 

[stb222]

Want to try this one again? Now I need to know what you were trying to say here.
.

I was getting at that you could not compete in the gc in stage races without doping, but one day races could still be won by someone clean. Also, due to the cycle you do with the drugs, you could be clean for a certain event and start doping in prep for a particular race.

 

[SmooveP]

While I don't agree with doping I understand that you have to do it to remain competitive if everyone else is doing it too.

Um, I can think of a few other choices off the top of my head. You can stand up and come out against it. Or choose not to be a part of it at all. No one is forcing anyone to be a pro bike racer.

 

[Patrick]

Good thought provoking stuff coming out in this thread. i don't see a explanation of why it could happen as a defense - bad things tend to come in a chain of events, if the chain isn't broken, it continues to worsen.

and it must be bad if in 2006 they get landis, but in 2005 they don't get LA. not enough $$ in the envelop perhaps? we'll find out very soon.

...
it's human nature to look at anyone more successful than ourselves and try to discredit them or cut them down in any way possible. ...

or do we want to put them upon a pedestal and revere them?

"i participate/play/compete in that sport and i know how hard that shot/catch/climb/HR/distance is, 'X' is simply amazing" -

which leads to the problem. Curt Schilling was recently interviewed on not being elected (nobody was) to the baseball HOF - his response was perfect - roughly "we are all to blame. everyone that knew and turned away. players, coaches, owners" - and since they gagged anyone that even hinted there was a problem with legal trouble, the open system that we consider America failed. elitism vs pluralism... when the courts side with the elites, the masses suffer.

hey, got a new snowboard deck today....!!!... wonder if @shaunwhite is juicing?

 

[Red Mosquito]

I was getting at that you could not compete in the gc in stage races without doping, but one day races could still be won by someone clean. Also, due to the cycle you do with the drugs, you could be clean for a certain event and start doping in prep for a particular race.

Its the sad reality but I think the likelihood of a clean rider winning in a field of dopers is pretty slim, no?

Um, I can think of a few other choices off the top of my head. You can stand up and come out against it. Or choose not to be a part of it at all. No one is forcing anyone to be a pro bike racer.

Very valid points, but aren't most pro athletes egotistical, narcissistic, cocky, etc.? Integrity doesn't exactly fit in with those personality traits. Nobility in refusing something that's wrong is a character trait that's all but dead. I'm not saying anyone is right to dope, I'm just saying that with all the pieces I can see, I understand why someone would make that choice.

or do we want to put them upon a pedestal and revere them?

Yes, semi-secretly. In total secrecy we're jealous, which manifests itself as disdain.

 

[ChrisRU]

I agree with Jake's and other's sentiments- pro sports is an entertainment business.

Those of you making the moral argument- these top athletes don't just come out of now where, they grow up from a young age engrossed in the sport and the culture. For many of them its not as simple as saying "oh no that's not right", its a decision to take it to the next level or walk away. Most have nothing to walk away to.

Lance was still a badass cyclist even if he is a doper. The way he handled himself off the bike is unfortunate though, I do feel for all of those he trampled over.

 

[gtluke]

 

[Robson]

My 2 cents...there is no more clean sport, just pure business. Make money quick if you can.

 

[SmooveP]

And what I'm saying is why would you want to waste any of your time watching, worshipping, enabling or defending a person with those personality traits? We all know people with no integrity in our personal lives. They're known as a**holes, and we usually try to avoid them.

 

[pxs231]

All of these "everybody was doing it... He didn't have a choice..." Arguments are quite sad to me. What do you say to do the kid who grows up in some ghetto and can either stay in school and find a way out or take the quick and easier way and get with a gang? Plenty of people have had harder choices than pro sports athletes to make and have done the right thing.

 

[Monkey Soup]

And what I'm saying is why would you want to waste any of your time watching, worshipping, enabling or defending a person with those personality traits? We all know people with no integrity in our personal lives. They're known as a**holes, and we usually try to avoid them.

Because its entertainment Einstein. What part of that don't you understand? Watching these guys destroy each other on beyond category climbs is ENTERTAINING. And who worships a professional athlete at your age anyway?

 

[Monkey Soup]

Seriously? That's what you believe?
You're "not saying it's right", but go on to defend each point with arguments that seem to indicate your opinions on each point. If you had kids, would you show them this list? If so, please don't reproduce!

Well, the air must be really thin up there on your high horse. Must be nice to live in such a black and white world. I don't know how you construe the above as being a defense, but maybe reading comprehension ain't your forte. Since most professional athletes are on dope, I think its safe to say that there is a wee bit of truth in my observations. I also think its safe to say that most are on dope period, for the reasons that Bonefish pointed out earlier. Even someone with a passing interest in professional sports has to be either blind or naive to not see this. The doping genie has been out of the bottle since the beginning of the Cold War. It is what it is, and as long as sports stay big money enterprises, will stay that way. I may not personally agree with it, but I understand. Then again I ain't in a situation with a potential fortune at stake with that decision to make.

And at the end of the days, these guys ain't splitting atoms or curing cancer (except for Lance), so who cares? Do you care that Arnold and Stallone did roids also. Boycott Conan, The Terminator, and Rambo (2 and 3 sucked, but the last one rocked).

 

[gtluke]

Arnold did roids when they were still legal though

 

[ajb]

Looks like he is going to rat on the UCI. not saying its not deserving, but maybe a little paranoid about how this will play into other circuits of riding which UCI control. particularly DH. case in point, we do have a dominating athlete and he was until, VERY recently, riding with Trek(coincidence why he switched?).

so what I am curious about is do we need to question all of our athletes? a few years ago many roadies were inspired by Lance and wouldn't question his wins.

its no doubt we(America) have some of the best training camps in the world(helps to be sponsored by redbull). we have dominating athletes in other Sports: Ted Ligety, Lindsey Vonn, 16 y.o rising star Mikaela Shiffrin, Kelly Clark etc... do we need to question these athletes as well?

overall just curious how this will play into the future of governing bodies like UCI, and FIS if at all.

 

[aedubber]

If anyone on here thinks any sport is clean ? lol then you must live under a rock . It is what it is , there are far worse things going on in life that we should worry about then just another user. Its been around for many years , and it will always be around .

Im going to speak from first hand , when i had initially started working out at the gym i was doing it clean. I did everything and took all my supplements needed . For 3 years i went clean, then i decided to go ahead and hit the sauce . Why ? simple, i was around it all the time , the results the " users " had were amazing . I was against any type of steroid my whole life , until the day i started it . I asked myself why didnt i start this earlier lol , the results i got within a few months i never achieved in those 3 years .

Is it bad ? Sure , it probably is but many things are bad for you in life and there are many things that we dont know how the long term side effects will effect us . You dont even have to take steroids to be a steroid , what do you think androgel or testim is ? Anything that will alter or spike your test in your body is a form of a steroid . I know a few people that compete for body building , lol yea thats sauce central but there are ways around it so the results dont show up when tested but EVERYONE knows they all do it .. If you try to compete in a clean form lol no way in hell would you stand a chance against everyone else thats competing ..

Hey for what its worth , were all human , we all make mistakes either by accident or intentionally .

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again"

 

[Arwen's Mom]

but people would have a similar reaction if they found out LA won because he ate a magical clif bar that gave him thrusty farts to push him up the climbs.

This is the funniest thing I have read today!

 

[Arwen's Mom]

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again"

^THIS!

I am loathe to respond to this thread in anything but a light hearted way.

Some people really do have true honor and others seem to have a difficult time accepting that. Figure out for yourself why.

As for Lance and doping in sports. Every one messes up. Just admit it, fix it, move on. We need to forgive them just like we want others to forgive us when we mess up. Remember that all things are relative to perspective.

Me? I wouldnt dope only because I am so determined to do it myself I wouldnt want the help from a drug. Eating good foods is a different story. Magical plant? Sure. Although when I DH raced 100 years ago and many of my friends used a "plant" to help alleviate tension and fear so they would go faster, I declined as I was determined to conquer my fear on my own.