Log removal at Chimmney Rock

pooriggy

pooriggy

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I phoned the park manager this morn. regarding log removal at CR. I politely asked why this was done and was told that this is something they began in the fall and continued this past week when the weather was good.
The Somerset co. Parks people are not opposed to such obstacles but want some control as to obstacles that go in. To simplify things they removed all logs to begin with a clean slate. The rangers don't know the difference between a safe log jump from an unsafe jump. Jorba(Kirt) would have to submit plans for trail "features" and get approval for future features.
The good thing is they are not saying no more logs, so there is a potential for these types of things to be put back. If they are put back the parks want responible people(Jorba/Imba) doing the building of such features. Its not going to happen overnight, and I would discourage rogue "trail modification". This would simply set the process back.
Hope to see folks at CR TM's 😀
 
I have been in Virginia for the last few weeks for a service school and have had the opportunity to ride some great trails with legal features that we dont see on any of our trails in NJ. It has given me additional insight into the way things work regarding ttf's. The first thing I noticed about trails here was that there are no log-overs. Seriously, if a tree falls, a chain saw slashes it away. Unless it is adopted into the flow of the trail and "built" into the trail system.

Your post is super accurate, and riding places like this makes me understand why. They have great technical trail features here, but every one of them (even log overs that we would laugh at in Allaire) are sanctioned by the land manager and have easily followed go-arounds. The trails can be enjoyed by rank beginners and big hucksters alike. (In theory, despite the signs at the trailhead warning about the difficulty/risk)

Check my galleries below for some great examples of what EVMA and MORE are doing in the Tidewater and Richmond areas. I plan to post a full recap of my trip sometime after coming home.

All galleries here: http://www.pbase.com/kseebeck/virginia_march_09

Freedom Park (Check the sub gallery for anatomy of what I consider to be a perfect ttf for a public park): http://www.pbase.com/kseebeck/freedom_park

Comments welcome on the pbase site or here. Remind your friends, basic JORBA membership is FREE. We need a common voice in NJ to get things like this done.

I want to clarify my post: I am showing some stuff I found on this trip that helps me understand what it takes to get features built. In no way am I saying this applies to CR or any park that JORBA stewards regarding current plans, policies, etc. Its just an example of something we can aspire to when our voice is strong. Join JORBA and kick your friends who arent members. Basic memberships are free. Thanks.
 
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Good posts guys. Thanks!

On Ken's, specifically. I actually think that's a better way to do things. The rangers at Sourlands (same rangers as for CR) on Sunday said basically this, and I paraphrase: "We need to make the trail usable for hikers. If you idiots want to ride over those big rocks over there, go nuts. Make all the secondary lines you want but the main trail needs to be hikeable."
 
Great stuff. I know if we got the go ahead from parks people to build features like that you would have no shortage of volunteers to help build.
 
Norm said:
Good posts guys. Thanks!

On Ken's, specifically. I actually think that's a better way to do things. The rangers at Sourlands (same rangers as for CR) on Sunday said basically this, and I paraphrase: "We need to make the trail usable for hikers. If you idiots want to ride over those big rocks over there, go nuts. Make all the secondary lines you want but the main trail needs to be hikeable."
Click to expand...

This is true to a point. The county Rangers don't want a bunch of splinter trails either. I worked closely with the Rangers during the 2 detailed walkthroughs prior to trail construction to route the main path near or adjacent to any rock features that us idiots might be interested in. The idea was to create a true multi-use trail that is good for hikers and intermediate mountain bikers, but still offer the technical challenge to anyone who wants the 'Deluxe Sourlands Experience'.
 
We should get these to the folks in Essex County also so they can see what a beautiful job this community can do with their trails...
 
mtbdawgJeff said:
This is true to a point. The county Rangers don't want a bunch of splinter trails either. I worked closely with the Rangers during the 2 detailed walkthroughs prior to trail construction to route the main path near or adjacent to any rock features that us idiots might be interested in. The idea was to create a true multi-use trail that is good for hikers and intermediate mountain bikers, but still offer the technical challenge to anyone who wants the 'Deluxe Sourlands Experience'.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sorry about that, I was taking poetic license there. It wasn't quite "build your own trail" kinda thing. I think a picture tells a better story. From Bobby's set, you can see the hiking trail and the obvious alternate path:

3376412332_5c45a533a6_o.jpg
 
Norm said:
Yeah, sorry about that, I was taking poetic license there. It wasn't quite "build your own trail" kinda thing. I think a picture tells a better story. From Bobby's set, you can see the hiking trail and the obvious alternate path:
Click to expand...

I wonder who cleaned a bunch of those 'alternate lines' 🙄

The Virginia trails look great, but it seems to me that is a 100% MTB trail.

The problem is what others have mentioned...That is defintely an EYESORE for nature lovers & most hikers.
I dont think any hiker wants to jump off ramps and walk 'skinnies'.
Sourlands is probably a few of the parks where u can manage to get all these alternate lines that 'normal' people will never see as a 'skill feature' unless they happen to hike by as some biker is wheelin' off a rock.

Isn't the problem with all these NJ parks that these need to be MULTI-use trails? So, until you get permits for MTB ONLY trails I don't think u can get away with building any features.
 
You are right, a majority of the trails here with features on them are MTB specific (in the case of New Quarter's feature area and Freedom's MTB trail) or they put the wooden features on a mtb specific loop (like pocahontas)

They do have some smaller features peppered throughout each park on multi use trails. Things like super low to the ground skinnies made of 4x4's, big log overs, etc. I rode a skinny that was 6" off the ground for over a half hour yesterday, it was that fun. Something like that, on a small alternate line off of a multi use trail, is certainly acceptable for all user groups.

Keep the faith and get your friends involved. To get things like this done the mentality cant be reactionary ("Hey if you are building cool shit more people will come help"). We need to be proactive. ("Hey I want to help to show how many people ride bikes and volunteer")

See my comment above regarding JORBA.
 
Sometimes skinnies can be disguised as benches, or benches as skinnies. You know, use all those removed log sections to give the hikers a natural rest station. If the bark is left attached they blend right in - you hardly even see them until your right on top of it...

Tom P.
 
I also think the quality of the features comes into play. No ranger or park offical will even think about dealing with the liability if the feature is poorly built.
 
Well, as much as I understand where they're coming from, the last time we did TM at CR the same thing happened and it was mildly upsetting. They had cut out obstacles that had been then for ages, well established and safe with the argument (slightly paraphrased since it's been a while since the last TM) that if a 70 year old can't do it it's not going to stay. Some of the stuff that was cut out was a little over the top, if a hiker couldn't get over that I'd have been really surprised they could have made it that far up the trail. Since mountain biking on trails is a bit on/off in Jersey we can't expect to get everything we want, but seeing as a lot of the trail maintenance is done with the support of Jorba/IMBA as well as cyclists not associated with either group it would have been at least half way decent if they had made it known that this was a plan before clearing out a whole park. I love helping out where I can at TM's but don't expect me to wield a saw and start hacking down every trail feature I see, I rather just stay home.
 
KenS said:
)
I want to clarify my post: I am showing some stuff I found on this trip that helps me understand what it takes to get features built. In no way am I saying this applies to CR or any park that JORBA stewards regarding current plans, policies, etc. Its just an example of something we can aspire to when our voice is strong. Join JORBA and kick your friends who arent members. Basic memberships are free. Thanks.
Click to expand...

stb222 said:
I also think the quality of the features comes into play. No ranger or park offical will even think about dealing with the liability if the feature is poorly built.
Click to expand...

Ken makes a good point, join in with Jorba in the spirit of having a strong MTBing communtiy. Joining Jorba is not going to gurantee cool bike riding features will get built. Joining Jorba will help to voice our trail interests, but the other hurdle in building trails is LIABILITY, as stb pointed out. NJ is a very litigious state, park managers and decision makers are extremely cautious when dealing with the public on state/county and township property.
Unfortunatley what other states can do with trails blows away what we do in NJ. As Ken said all we can do is aspire to do better with trails by having a strong MTB community=JORBA
 
Nevertheless my ride today just didn't seem the same without the usual logs :cry: Like it or not, that's what it is but i have to say they went very far and cut some very small stuff laying on trail which was like a step. In a couple areas there was an alternate path around some logs and they still cut it up. Pure craziness.
 
hopefully this weekends TM wont get rained out. I also hope that the park commission reps will be there to help us understand their objectives and intentions for the future. I would hope that Jorba would be in the loop as 2 any trail mods that the park plans to do... like log removal. It seems to me that some of the biggest contributers to the trails are mtb'ers and we should be entitled to some trail features unique to our rides. I think we have a great respect for the system and the impact that is placed upon it. What other websites feature almost daily updates on trail conditions and maintenance schedules? I don't know of any off hand, but I doubt that there are other park users getting together on forums and discussing weather or not they should use the facility due to mud or rain, freeze or thaw.
 
The log removal was certainly odd. For years there has been logs, many of them easy enough to walk over. I understand removing some of the 'new' logs, like ones that just fell because of a storm and someone built-up logs to make it roll-able.

But, the logs at CR is was kinda made CR. I totally understand that hikers need to use the trails too, but I never thought the logs were so large that they couldn't be walked over.

That said, there where logs that were off the to side on many trails that were just removed. They were never in the way, and the trail has always been that wide.

I personally think it's a little bit much, but whats done is done. I just hope CR doesn't turn into Six Mile like trails. (Nothing wrong with Six Mile, but there is a reason it's called 'The Rock'.)
 
Not sure if this has been said, but logs keep ATV's out of CR. I would be willing to bet that there will be a problem with 4-wheelers or dirt bikes back there sometime this season. Tight singletrack and logs equal no motorized vehicles!
 
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